Below is a copy of a talk I gave at the Saturday evening adult session of stake conference two years ago:
Brothers and Sisters as a stake president my heart goes out to you who have children who are no longer in the Church. Know that I think about and pray for the safe return of these souls daily.
As a family oriented Church it hurts very deeply when our children choose to break their ties with us by leaving the Church and not keeping their lives in harmony with the gospel.
The example of a sweet sister is highlighted in the Feb 2004 Ensign* article entitled “I Won’t Give Up on Them”. This divorced sister lamented over her children saying “I expected their pure hearts to recognize and cling to goodness. I naively thought the choice between their father’s immoral, apostate lifestyle and my gospel-centered lifestyle would be easy for them. I was devastated as one by one, three of my four children turned their backs on the Church.”
She goes on to say “My heart was broken by the decisions of my children, and in a very real sense my life fell apart.” Oh that children would be more considerate of the feelings of their parents! I have a friend the same age as I who wanted to leave the church and live a different lifestyle with our school friend Gary, but who has remained active and worthy to this day in order to maintain the approval of his parents. I applaud such maturity and authentic living. I am happy to see that Brother Holman is in the congregation today and though he never married is known for faithfully cleaning the chapel each week as he serves the Lord. These blessings are all thanks to his decision to remain with the saints when the tempter would have had him choose another path.
The sister in the ensign article goes on to explain her feelings with regards to her fellow ward members saying “I was embarrassed when people learned that my 14-year-old daughter had elected to live with her father, who had chosen a homosexual lifestyle, instead of with me. (What was I doing wrong? I was a good mother. I paid tithing, fasted and prayed, attended the temple. What more could I do?) Later, it was even more embarrassing to admit that my daughter had chosen her father’s lifestyle for her own.” I cannot even begin to imagine how embarrassing it would be to have to admit to fellow Church members that ones own child has chosen a homosexual lifestyle. Like this sister my worthiness as a parent would be in question and my reputation as a worthy priesthood holder and father could be forever marred.
The article stresses the importance of the careful interactions that parents should have with apostate children. I would echo the warning in the article to be careful not to pollute yourself “by spending time inBabylon.
When she did visit her daughter this good mother attended the local ward and instead of wallowing in her own misery thinking only of herself she turned her thoughts to what these poor righteous Church members must think when they see her unworthy daughter; “They would look at her walking down the street or drinking with her female partner, and they would feel uncomfortable. It probably would not occur to them that she was raised inUtah
I would like to note here that I commend this good sister for being honest not only in her heart but with the world about the reality that her children are unworthy. This is one of the great things about being members of the one true Church-we can see things as they really are while the rest of the world remains in darkness. I have always maintained that honesty is the key to successful relationships and thinking (correctly in this case) of one's child as unworthy is the sort of honesty that can only lead to a healthy, strong and loving relationship.
I always advise parents as a matter of principle to take ownership of and apologize for their children’s behaviour when it is not in line with the gospel. The spirit prompted this sister likewise as she stood up and bore this testimony “Brothers and Sisters, I am here visiting my daughter, who should be a member of your ward but has not been inside a chapel for many years. In fact, three of my four children have fallen away from the Church. I want to apologize to you good people on behalf of my children. I suspect that you may have seen them as you walked down these streets, and I am sorry if their behavior has offended you….”
This testimony brings tears to my eyes. My heart truly goes out to this sister and the poor ward members who have to share the same streets as her daughter.
To those of you who have children who, as the article says “may not be worthy” please continue to have hope and faith. Remember that “Faith is a belief that through fasting and prayer all things are possible—even a change of heart in our children so that they will repent and return to the Church.”
I have always maintained that the best way you and I can be missionaries to our neighbours, associates and even our children is to radiate the joy of the gospel by the way that we live. As I have done this the Lord has blessed me and my posterity with an undeniable testimony and commitment to the gospel and has allowed me through your prayers to lead this stake in humility and righteousness. Brothers and Sisters I bestow upon you the blessings of the Lord as you strive to live in such a manner that your children will not forsake you by leaving the church, and do so in the sacred and holy name of our Lord and Saviour, even Jesus the Christ, amen.
Brothers and Sisters as a stake president my heart goes out to you who have children who are no longer in the Church. Know that I think about and pray for the safe return of these souls daily.
As a family oriented Church it hurts very deeply when our children choose to break their ties with us by leaving the Church and not keeping their lives in harmony with the gospel.
The example of a sweet sister is highlighted in the Feb 2004 Ensign* article entitled “I Won’t Give Up on Them”. This divorced sister lamented over her children saying “I expected their pure hearts to recognize and cling to goodness. I naively thought the choice between their father’s immoral, apostate lifestyle and my gospel-centered lifestyle would be easy for them. I was devastated as one by one, three of my four children turned their backs on the Church.”
She goes on to say “My heart was broken by the decisions of my children, and in a very real sense my life fell apart.” Oh that children would be more considerate of the feelings of their parents! I have a friend the same age as I who wanted to leave the church and live a different lifestyle with our school friend Gary, but who has remained active and worthy to this day in order to maintain the approval of his parents. I applaud such maturity and authentic living. I am happy to see that Brother Holman is in the congregation today and though he never married is known for faithfully cleaning the chapel each week as he serves the Lord. These blessings are all thanks to his decision to remain with the saints when the tempter would have had him choose another path.
The sister in the ensign article goes on to explain her feelings with regards to her fellow ward members saying “I was embarrassed when people learned that my 14-year-old daughter had elected to live with her father, who had chosen a homosexual lifestyle, instead of with me. (What was I doing wrong? I was a good mother. I paid tithing, fasted and prayed, attended the temple. What more could I do?) Later, it was even more embarrassing to admit that my daughter had chosen her father’s lifestyle for her own.” I cannot even begin to imagine how embarrassing it would be to have to admit to fellow Church members that ones own child has chosen a homosexual lifestyle. Like this sister my worthiness as a parent would be in question and my reputation as a worthy priesthood holder and father could be forever marred.
The article stresses the importance of the careful interactions that parents should have with apostate children. I would echo the warning in the article to be careful not to pollute yourself “by spending time in
When she did visit her daughter this good mother attended the local ward and instead of wallowing in her own misery thinking only of herself she turned her thoughts to what these poor righteous Church members must think when they see her unworthy daughter; “They would look at her walking down the street or drinking with her female partner, and they would feel uncomfortable. It probably would not occur to them that she was raised in
I would like to note here that I commend this good sister for being honest not only in her heart but with the world about the reality that her children are unworthy. This is one of the great things about being members of the one true Church-we can see things as they really are while the rest of the world remains in darkness. I have always maintained that honesty is the key to successful relationships and thinking (correctly in this case) of one's child as unworthy is the sort of honesty that can only lead to a healthy, strong and loving relationship.
I always advise parents as a matter of principle to take ownership of and apologize for their children’s behaviour when it is not in line with the gospel. The spirit prompted this sister likewise as she stood up and bore this testimony “Brothers and Sisters, I am here visiting my daughter, who should be a member of your ward but has not been inside a chapel for many years. In fact, three of my four children have fallen away from the Church. I want to apologize to you good people on behalf of my children. I suspect that you may have seen them as you walked down these streets, and I am sorry if their behavior has offended you….”
This testimony brings tears to my eyes. My heart truly goes out to this sister and the poor ward members who have to share the same streets as her daughter.
To those of you who have children who, as the article says “may not be worthy” please continue to have hope and faith. Remember that “Faith is a belief that through fasting and prayer all things are possible—even a change of heart in our children so that they will repent and return to the Church.”
I have always maintained that the best way you and I can be missionaries to our neighbours, associates and even our children is to radiate the joy of the gospel by the way that we live. As I have done this the Lord has blessed me and my posterity with an undeniable testimony and commitment to the gospel and has allowed me through your prayers to lead this stake in humility and righteousness. Brothers and Sisters I bestow upon you the blessings of the Lord as you strive to live in such a manner that your children will not forsake you by leaving the church, and do so in the sacred and holy name of our Lord and Saviour, even Jesus the Christ, amen.
40 comments:
I feel so badly for this mother and ex-wife of gay people.
Obviously her husband married her believing he could change, but then he was too weak, and yielded to Satan.
Satan's greatest tool in these latter days is homosexuality.
One day I saw a gay man, wearing short shorts and a pink tank top, holding a toy poodle in his arms...and at that moment I knew I had seen the face of pure evil. I turned away from him, and ran and ran and ran.
While attending BYU, I had a professor in a history class who prophesied (not as a prophet, but as a man filled with the holy spirit of The Lord and Savior...even Jesus Christ) that the gay rights movement would eventually bring a second Civil War to our country. I can see now that his words are beginning to come true.
May we all hold to the rod as we pass through the mists of darkness and the lone and dreary wilderness of these the latter days.
I say these things, humbly, in the sacred and holy name of Christmas Eve,
Amen.
Hold to the rod, but do not rub or stroke the rod. Do not sit on the rod, lean against it, or put your mouth on it. Do not show the rod, or pictures of the rod, to your friends. Do not walk on the rod like a balance beam, and do not hang upside down from the rod. Do not look at the rod longingly.
As members of a Church run by worthy men who hold to the rod without playing with it, I urge us each to follow their examples.
If you don't currently have the rod, then please find someone who does, and grab hold.
.
Brother ibowedmyheadandsaidyes,
Your words have great meaning for me, as I was once a wayward child of zion wandering the streets of babylon.
After being exposed to anti-mormon propaganda I allowed myself to question the authenticity of Joseph Smith's calling and in that moment I let Lucifer into my heart. I convinced myself that the only reason I thought the church was true was because I was forced to bear my testimony countless times as a child and taught to pray to heavenly father since before I understood what I was saying.
I mistakenly thought I had been brainwashed by my parents and the church.
With the spirit of contention I examined the claims of anti-mormons and lost my testimony.
If my mother hadn't threatened to disown me, send me to military school, and take away my car, I might never have had the courage to lean on her testimony until I found mine again.
I still haven't found my testimony, even to this day, but there is no shame in leaning on my mother's testimony until the Lord sees fit to forgive me for my evil ways. It's not as if grace is free, now is it?
I bear my testimony that shunning, shaming, and threatening wayward family members is the Lord's way, and is the only way to inspire unruly children to return to the fold. In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
Oh how close this beautiful and inspired article hits to my darkened and soiled heart. I have been that daughter that caused such horrific shame to my own dear saintly LDS mother.
She is to Mormonism as Mother Theresa is to Catholic Saints. Maybe even as noble as the dear mother of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
I writhe with agony at the shame I've brought upon her with my wanton lustful wild and fornicating ways.
I knew fully the shame she bore when one day she visited my home and saw a family portrait on the wall of my three living children. She and another LDS woman were looking at the picture and my mother quietly said with that tone of shame but apology that all good LDS women eventually master, "Yes, she had five, but two died in infancy and so she only has three living children. I'm not sure why she stopped trying".
There I was in my kitchen preparing a delicious and healthy dinner and yet writhing with shame at the selfishness of my womb. WHY OH WHY had I not followed in her footsteps and had eight or nine or ten children when my womb was so fertile and conception came so easily.
Then I reeled with the horror of what I did later in divorcing my good LDS husband and going on a rampage of wanton wild sexual exploration until finally spent and tired, I settled for a wonderful and kind and employed but Godless heathen Atheist man who treats me like gold, does not require me to use up my uterus, and provides both emotional and intellectual fulfillment.
If I were truly repentant I'd turn from such wickedness and bring my mother pride and happiness and re-marry my ex and have our temple blessings restored. If not for my own salvation, then for her own sense of comfort that ALL of her eight children have stayed faithful and true to the gospel, even when their marriages are lonely, sad, and incredibly tedious as they suffer through to the end.
Thankyou, President Paternoster. You nailed it again. Your inspired wisdom and insight into the truthfulness of the gospel and the workings of cultural mores is a beacon of light to the world. Not only do you reflect great righteousness but you are also a worthy judge and enforcer of those holy laws. I look to you for all the most virtuous and sanctioned minutia of the Lord.
Thank you so much for your blog, president!
We must never forget, too, that even church-attending children might stray.
I have an older sister who has caused my family a great deal of pain and sorrow...while she attends church every week, she has clearly forgotten the council of my father. While her marriage was in the temple, her husband seems to have no desire to humble himself and progress within the church, even refusing to shave his beard or wear white shirts and a suit jacket! They only have two children after almost eight years of marriage, and I suspect they have let her health issues outweigh the promptings of the holy ghost. They have a group of non-Mormon friends, and vote for politicians who are Republican in name only.
My parents and I fear it is only a small leap for them to begin skipping church and breaking the Word of Wisdom, and so we pray for them constantly, leaving their name on the prayer roll, and doing our best to exhort them in family gatherings to be more prompt in their obedience. In particular, I do my best to encourage their children to not follow their rebellious example.
Please keep them in your hearts...it is such a short step from these smaller rebellions to losing the Spirit entirely.
President, I too have an example of the heartbreak an apostate child can bring to the family.
A family in our ward has a daughter who refused to embrace the Gospel in her life. She could not abide by the high standards her parents insisted be followed in their home. Day after day this wayward daughter insisted on wearing tank tops and shorts that would not cover the holy garment completely. She went out at night with friends her parents didn't approve of. She refused to attend church and weekday activities. Even though the daughter was over 18, the parents in their wisdom, determined that their daughter should be grounded for her behavior.
This continued for many months. The parents pleaded with the daughter in the spirit of fasting and prayer, all to no avail. She said she no longer had a testimony, and she could no longer stand to live the high standards of the Lord her parents insisted she adhere to.
The situation intensified until the daughter stayed out all night with her boyfriend. At that point, the parents could no longer tolerate the daughter's evil influence in their home. As the scripture says, "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." Since the daughter chose a sinful, wicked lifestyle, her parents decided they could not and would not lower their standards to their daughter's level. They sent her to live with a non-member friend who's family had much lower standards than they did.
Now the LDS family misses their daughter very much, and prays for her every day. But their home is once again a place where the Spirit of the Lord can dwell.
It is so, so sad that you can turn your backs on your children this way. Although, if you think that any "choice" went into being gay, then I suppose I can expect nothing more of you. It is never easy for a child to finally say to their parent's face, "The god you believe in has nothing for me," and both child and parent require love. That any of you can claim to determine "worthiness" as though choosing a horse is despicable and terrifying. May you all find peace—and may you learn to love your children.
Some people are being very sarcastic on the president's blog today. You might think this is a funny issue, but it isn't. My oldest daughter has left the church. It has been very hard on our family. People make snide comments and I have to endure what feels like fake sympathy from many relief society sisters (I know it's not fake and it's up to me not get offended, but I'm very sensitive a the moment).
We held family home evening every week when she was growing up. We also had family prayer, family devotionals, family hymn singing and weekly father's interviews. The brethren have promised that if we do all of these things our children will not stray, and yet my daughter has. I know it must be my fault, there must be something that I didn't do right, and it haunts me day and night. This issue is no laughing matter.
And to xJane - we love our children even though they are unworthy. We have not turned our backs on them, we are waiting patiently for them, like the prodigal son, to return from their sojourn with the pigs; broke, humbled and repentant.
Tina and I have one wayward son who masturbates...many of you have met him at Stake events so please keep his little problem confidential.
Anyway, it hasn't been easy dealing with the crushing weight of depression and guilt for having failed him as parents.
But that's why we had 6 more children. It's my hope that if we triple our efforts per child to control the beliefs and behavior of the remaining children they will have an even greater chance of taking the teachings to heart and following every word from God's mouth with order and exactness.
I join with the other good Saints of the church in praying for some humbling, possibly crippling and painful event to come upon the wayward children of the church so that they will come back to the gospel and restore their testimonies.
Sometimes the wayward children have to hit bottom. Let us all pray that they find that chasm soon and are sufficiently humbled.
.
Sister Insana,
I agree whole-heartedly with your plea for some catastrophic catalyst to turn these wayward children around so they may again cling tightly to the rod that leads to eternal happiness & joy.
Perhaps the lord in his infinite mercy will see fit to send category 5 hurricanes, tornados, tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, droughts, economic collapse, war, pestilence, disease, and legalize homosexual marriage so that these childrens' eyes may opened.
Once they see that the world is truly coming to an end they will be frightened and remember the covenants they made with the lord when they were 8 and old enough to make such important decisions.
But please, Lord, please... spare the stakes of Zion. In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
Spencer...
Your son will indeed one day gain self-mastery. He will learn from this trial during his youth. The only way for him to find the truth is for you as a father and your wife as his mother to cause him to feel as much shame as you possibly can. If that doesn't work, I'm sure the President's son can put in a good word for him at anti-masturbation summer camp next year.
In the name of Christmas Eve,
Amen.
Given that the name was withheld on the linked Ensign article, I can't help but wonder if this story is real or some fabrication told to make the members feel guilty and keep them in line. Silly me, what was I thinking, the one true church would never need to fabricate or rewrite history. I'm sure this mother was just so embarrassed that she didn't want to use her real name.
If only we lived in the promised land of Utah, we could send our wayward sons to the Sons of Heleman program.
http://www.sonsofhelaman.org/
If you visit the site twice, you even get a special, inspired, popup message telling you that they know you are an addict (I only visited twice because I wanted to check if I could refer one of our young men - unfortunately the church will not sponsor his airfare).
If only we had Daughters of Sariah programs too for Sister Abbot's daughter (who I will not name on the internet, because I don't wish to further upset dear Sister Abbot).
I think that as good and faithful LDS saints we have a duty to kick our wayward children out of the house. Especially the ones who have chosen the sinful homosexual lifestyle. It is well known that gay people actively recruit others to their evil lifestyle so you need to remove them from your home.
One of the families in our ward had a son who chose to be gay in high school. The bishop and other counselled this family to remove him from the home to protect their other 7 children from exposure to his lifestyle, and possible following his bad example. The church leaders gave them numerous talks and articles by President Packer (our next prophet) that condemn gays.
But that family refused to follow their bishop's inspired advice. For some reason insisted that they loved their son despite his choices. They said something about that being the Christlike thing to do, but of course we all knew its better to follow the church leaders.
So what was the result? They left the church! Can you believe it? They told us that they didn't want to belong to a church that didn't support their son. They even said that he was born that way, which President Packer said is not true. This shows were clearly on their way to apostasy any way.
So the crazy thing is that their other 7 children have turned out just fine. None of them are gay, they seem normal. BUT since they are not affiliated with the Church any more I know they are not happy.
Your post is obviously a sensitive topic. As parents we often need to make difficult choices concerning our children. Does the parent who says no to a sleepover love their child any less then a parent who says yes? No
Does a parent who buys their child their own car love them more than the parent who tell their child to get a bus pass? No
Coping with children who have decided to follow a path that is not in harmony with the gospel is difficult for any parent. I don't think it is fair to judge the methods of one parent over another.
Yes it is important to protect yourself and your testimony. If there are things in your children's lives that you are uncomfortable with then the council to steer clear of it is a good one. Different parents are able to cope with different situations, that's just how it is. Am I a bad parent if I do not wish to participate in my daughters hobby of bungee jumping?
I hope not. It is possible to love the child and not the behaviour.
Thank you, Cindy, for such a thought-provoking comment!
I'm sure that if my parents had restricted my sister's activities more appropriately, being more willing to say "no" about the little things like sleepovers and non-LDS friends she would be in a much better spiritual place today, able to guide herself and her husband as the heart of the home more capably.
Instead, it breaks my heart, but she often seems to avoid us...I have no idea why.
Bishop Wigglesworth,
The Sons of Helaman program is truly inspired and directed by those emulating our prophet, seers and revelators. I signed up two of my masturbating sons...and...as a special introductory offer they gave me a key board and monitor splash guard. Cool, huh?
.
Sister Cindy,
You've made a compelling point but I feel it is my priesthood duty to correct you on one point that, if left uncorrected, could do serious damage to the stakes of Zion.
You said: "I don't think it is fair to judge the methods of one parent over another."
Imagine a parent that abuses their child, or sells their child as a slave. Are we not to judge their parenting methods?
What if a child's parents decide they will brainwash him by forcing him to recite wrote prayers to false gods and repeat empty testimonies about false prophets. Are we not to alert the bishop to the luciferian deeds of the couple?
As members of the Lord's one true church it is our duty to supervise the parenting of every child of Zion. It is our obligation to offer guidance and correction if we feel the parents are straying from path the brethren have laid out.
When it comes to raising children in the one true church of god there is no room for creativity. Once the brethren have spoken, the thinking has been done. We should instead look to the parenting methods of President Monson's parents.
Surely, if we raise our children as his parents did our children will not stray. It takes a village to raise a child, Sister Cindy.
I trust in the future you will have your husband proof-read any comments you make on the President's blog so he may approve your message. Had you done that I'm sure we could have avoided this embarrassing admonition.
In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
I've read a lot of secular books on abusive and controlling behavior, and these books would say that the way this mother thought about her children (believing she knows what they think and feel, their motivations, and worrying that them being themselves is offensive to their neighbors) is abusive and controlling.
SO glad to have the gospel to point out that this woman isn't controlling or abusive - she is just following god. god is not controlling or abusive. he is loving and his love is conditional upon our righteousness, because he loves us.
Jen this is why I highly suggest readiing the ensign instead of secular books.
O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.
Yes. That makes perfect sense. I turned to secular books, because the ensign never talked about what a person who is being abused should do... the best quote I found was from your hero Boyd K. Packer, but I wasn't satisfied (please forgive me for wanting more than what an apostle could offer.)
"The woman pleading for help (who is being abused) needs to see the eternal nature of things and to know that her trials -- however hard to bear -- in the eternal scheme of things may be compared to a very, very bad experience in the second semester of the first grade. She will find no enduring peace in the feminist movement. There she will have no hope. If she knows the plan of redemption, she can be filled with hope."
Thank you President. I shared the story with two of my children who are apostates and they in a very evil manner stated that the LDS woman in the story is a complete arrogant ignorant. I personally don't think so I think that she is inspired by our savior even our Lord Jesus Christ. My two daughters live what they call "happy lives" which you and I know is not true. Their friends who attend church are all taking antidepresants and closedly followed by psychiatrists. My two daughters are no longer taking antidepressant medication, but that is obviously because they have given up on the struggle for the cause of the lord.
President
I have just found your blog and have feverishly been reading back through your old posts and have now read them all.
Keep them coming, brother. I now know that the lord invented the internet so that your wisdom and insight go forth boldly, nobly and independent, all the while foiling that cunning plan of the evil one.
Cheers Loz
oh that i had read this blog post sooner. i only recently in the past few weeks have told my mother i no longer believe. had i only considered the possible ridicule and embarassment she would receive it might not have been so bad to consider living as a non belieiving mormon to spare her the shame. what is my happiness to that of my mothers. how selfish of me. if only the culture were not one that members would pitty her, and make assumptions of me. how foolish of me. a life of secret non belief and following rules i no longer agree with would have been a small price to pay for her honor and happiness.
I am so glad that Cindy brought up that divinely inspired platitude: "Love the sinner, hate the sin."
This is exactly what those of us who struggle with apostate children try to emulate.
We love these children of God with all our hearts and we pray without ceasing that they will give up the evil non-believing and/or homosexual lifestyles they have chosen. We will never give up our efforts to win them back to the fold through our prayers, good examples and showing them our Christ-like non-judgmental love.
However, until that glorious day comes when these precious, dear children renounce their sinful ways, we must safeguard ourselves and our righteous family members from their evil influence. Satan is clever and will tug at our heartstrings to try to get us to let our sinful children defile the temple of our homes. The Holy Ghost cannot abide in a home where the unrighteous dwell.
These children are truly loved, and their sins truly hated.
I am so lucky that I found this blog. I AM A SINFUL HOMOSEXUAL AND NEED TO FIND JESUS. This blog was posted to a group of filthy sinners that I belong to on Facebook. After reading all of the stories of Christlike, loving parents who completely reject and abhor the sight and memory of their wayward children I recognize what awful state I've put my family in by CHOOSING to be gay. What is wrong with me??? Was it watching too many Britney Spears videos? Was it carrying my baby-blanket to kindergarten? Was it going on a mission? What did I do? How can I be clean and believe in Mormonisms again? Please help me, dear President! I don't know what to do. The gay world is so glittery and fabulous. IT SMELLS AWESOME! But I know, because of the actions of all of these Selfless Saints that I am wrong. Their callous treatment of sinners is bringing me to repentance! Please, treat all people who aren't going to the temple weekly like you treat gaysexuals. That will make them want to come back, like it made me want to come back.
I cannot believe the comments I'm reading on here. How can any of you refer to yourselves as Christians, and then say the things you do?
"Those who don't belong to the church can't be happy?" Are you kidding me?
The most depressing days I ever lived through happened to coincide with my church membership.
Also it sure is interesting that the state with the highest concentration of Mormons, also happens to be the state with most suicides.
It's sad how some of you can just abandon your children because their views differ from yours. How Christ like is that?
"It is well known that gay people actively recruit others to their evil lifestyle so you need to remove them from your home."
Umm who is it well known by? Saying It is well known is another way of saying i have absolutely no proof to back up what I'm about to say...
The number of brainwashed sheep who comment on this blog are seriously depressing me.
bout the things you are saying.
If homosexuality is a learned behavior than why is their a strong correlation between homosexuals and unique genetic traits?
Why would any homosexual CHOOSE to be a homosexual? They are constantly discriminated against, beaten, and stripped of basic human rights.
"Satan's greatest tool in these latter days is homosexuality."
Really his greatest tool is homosexuality? Of which affects next to no one except the person who is homosexual.
Funny, I thought Satan's greatest tool might be greed, misinformation, jealousy, and the gift of providing many of you with the skills to discriminate, generalize, and ignore evidence that differs from your own selfish philosophy. Geez how silly of me.
Enjoy your "reality" and keep working selfishly towards the ultimate selfish goal of reaching the celestial kingdom by stepping on the backs of your sons, daughters, husbands, and wives to get there.
Is it better just to kill your apostate child and send them straight to heaven, rather than suffer them to live a life of sin?
I don't think I've ever run across such a group of bigoted, intolerant parochial, mindless sycophants in a religious forum.
Just reading to the vile comments pronounced here including shunning of family if they don't conform to your medieval, pinched view of existence makes me want to vomit. I for one could never co-exist with the likes of the neanderthals I see here. Any apostates you get you have richly earned.
Just realized this site has to be a parody. (I hope to god it is). Sometimes it's hard to tell the pretend wackadoodles from the real ones.
Oh. Sweet. Rasssilon.
I'm 16 and would most likely elect to live in the presence of my father if her were to say he was a homosexual than anywhere near the repressive, sexist, and harmful views of the mormon church. As a Utahn, I've been in contact with the church and even went to Sunday meetings often. For a year or two I was content, but then I began to notice that my carefully self-chosen beliefs(those which I hold over the views of any body of people telling me what to believe) and I wished to leave. Thankfully my mother would not allow me to be baptized until I learned more about the church, but when I did I didn't wish to. The only thing that kept me listening to the LDS church was fear of what would happen if I stopped, but now I realize that I don't wish to worship the mormon God for many reasons. I believe two people who love each other should have the ability to marry and "be together forever," REGARDLESS of sexuality. I also believe that women are strong and could do so much more than the church allows. Why does the church encourage adding to the world population programs rather than brainwa-excuse me-I mean convert children with no parents to guide and love them? Adopt rather than pumping out 13 kids!
I'm so glad that people are brave enough to put the church behind them. Not because the mormons are bad people-which they aren't. They are very kind and grateful and generous, if not misguided- but because they found what they truly believe and stand for it rather than going with what they were raised on.
I came across this article by researching the effect of LDS religiousness on the chances of having a successful family, and I can't help but think that this will support the side of Mormonism decreasing that chance in certain circumstances. I'm glad that the LDS church values family so much, but reading this article sickened me. They way that woman spoke of homosexuality, as if she'd done something wrong to deserve a *gasp* 'gay man coming out and being honest with himself and others' in her life, is one of the reasons I High-tailed it out of the church. INTOLERANCE AND SUPERIORITY COMPLEXES.
I apologize if I come on as illogically biased and over rude, but I have very strong feelings about this issue and am prompted by my own spiritual feelings to defend my views, as they are what make me who I am. I will not and should not be asked to change my views on what I see as fundamentally right in order to appease some God and dilute the fear that I'll be cast away because I didn't jump through every hoop set out for humanity. I believe being a good person but NOT marrying a person of the opposite sex in the temple should give you an equal chance at being in paradise, and that no GOd would divide his children in 'superior' tiers just because they didn't support the mormon church.
LGBT pride festival is this weekend in UT, hope I can go ;D
Much love,
A person who follows what she believes
Doesn't the church teach free agency? I really don't understand how this person wants you to believe it's your fault. Masterbation is healthy and normal. It's the shame the church creates around it that is causing your son's depression. Not the "sin".
Btw, I would never forgive my parents for informing the world of my "sins". I would think twice about posting something like that. Your post, Spencer is one of the most desturbing. Your son is on the fast track to suicide if you continue to shame him. Get a grip. Love him!! My heart breaks for your son.
Agreed 100%
Very disappointed in this talk!! Boy, anyone who thinks this talk and that pathetic mother is at all reacting the way our Heavenly Father would want them to. Has to go pray in their closet and repent!
All I see here is shame, blame and total stupidity!!
This sickens me, as a person who had personally left this hellish church. You think your high "standards" *cough* restictions *cough* can make a person feel happier, but they only cause pain.
I didn't leave the church because of Satan, I left the church because I got off my ass and did research and found out the truth. When I did this, I knew it wasn't true. But then I had to deal with lying everyday out of fear that my parents would hate me if they found out. I felt embarrassment when ever my parents talked about this weird church with my friends because I didn't want them to know about my Mormon background.
I just wanted to be a normal person who can live their life in a way they wanted to, and love who they wanted to. I was tired of acting like a clone, an being a walking advertisement for your church.
I'm glad I've left, I feel more peace now than I have ever felt. I don't hate myself anymore.
I hate what you do to this children,these innocent people, that are just living their own lives. Leave them alone, and give them the freedom that they always have deserved. Now wonder they run away as far as they can, because you call them evil then you try to drag them back into a hell they tried so hard to escape from.
So shame on you people who "apologize" for your children! If you really loved them you would accept them for who they are and not chase them away with your crazy cult teachings! Shame on all of you!
Are these comments real? You people are not like Christ.
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