Monday, October 10, 2011

Achieving Financial Independence; the First Step

Brothers and Sisters are you in financial trouble? 
Are you months behind on your bills?
Are creditors threatening to foreclose on your home and/or repossess your possessions?
Are your credit cards maxed out?
Are you considering getting additional credit cards to pay your bills?
Has it crossed your mind to have the Mother of the home work outside the home in order to feed the many children that the Lord has blessed you with and will continue to bless you with?

If you answered yes to any of the above I want you to know that anyone can achieve financial well-being by following prophetic counsel on monetary matters.

Allow me to quote from the inspiring ensign article entitled *Five Steps to Financial Well-Being written by a bankruptcy attorney which states clearly and unequivocally "The most important step toward achieving financial well-being is to pay tithing first—no excuses and no exceptions."

Giving 10% of your income to the Lord makes perfect financial sense.  As per the Church's financial guide for members **"If our tithing and fast offerings are the first obligations met following the receipt of each paycheck, our commitment to this important gospel principle will be strengthened and the likelihood of financial mismanagement will be reduced. Paying tithing promptly to Him who does not come to check up each month will teach us and our children to be more honest with those physically closer at hand."

In my stake I have made it crystal clear that this financial advice of paying tithing first includes even the destitute who according to the dictionary definition are “without means of subsistence; lacking food, clothing, and shelter.” 

In the ensign article entitled ‘Tithing a Commandment Even for the Destitute’ the point is made that 'Faith isn’t tested so much when the cupboard is full as when it is bare' and goes on to state that 'if a destitute family is faced with the decision of paying their tithing or eating, they should pay their tithing'.  If ever you are tempted to pay a bill or feed your family first before paying the Lord please be assured that you will never be tempted above that which you can bear.

Brothers and Sisters the faithful payment of tithes enables the worldwide Church, which has more members outside of the US than within, to invest the money and from the profits they can accomplish much good in the world such as the current project of spending billions of dollars building ****malls and condominiums in Utah.  A Sister once asked me why donations from Japanese, Brazilian and Irish Church members would be used to revitalize a downtown portion of a city in the United States of America.  She went on to ask why they don't revitalize Soweto instead or the slums of Rio de Janeiro or even that run down Irish Castle near Macroom, to which I lovingly responded “Sister Malley, God only knows.”

Brothers and Sisters the Lord doesn't need our money but we need the blessings that result from faithfully paying the Lord.  I am thankful for the sound financial advice of the Church and can testify that the best way to get out of debt, beat poverty and achieve financial freedom is to always pay 10% of your income to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.   


Brigham Taft Pratt said...

Well said President! I am always inspired when I can enter the walls of Salt Lake City and witness first hand all of the grandeur that the Lord has made possible through the sacrifice of the saints. I imagine the subjects of Roman expansion felt the same way during pilgramages to Rome. What a spectacle! The marble, granite, and bronze busts of past prophets that adorn the great and spacious conference center are particularly breath taking to me. I know there is debate in some circles as to whether the money being used to fund these projects comes directly from tithing. This is irrelevent. Be it tithing or other revenue streams, all of the funds are the Lord's funds and this is exactly what Jesus would do with the money. If people would study Jesus' life and teachings in both the New Testament and 3rd Nephi, they would realize that Jesus' priorities and the church's priorities are one and the same. Knowing this makes it easy for me to pay my tithing. Knowing that I will burn as stubble at Jesus' second coming if I have not been a full tithe payer is a further incentive. For those who require more worldly motivation, as our dear president has noted, paying tithing also makes you rich. Brothers and Sisters, I invite all of you to continue to pay tribute to Rome.....I mean Salt Lake City....I mean Jesus, and continue to bask in the blessings that come to those who put God first. This is my humble prayer, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Brigham Taft Pratt said...

I should also add, for those who want even more blessings, there are about 7 other categories on the tithing slip to allow you to generously give above and beyond the 10% tithing requirements. For those of you who struggle with math and logic, let me make this clear for you: if paying 10% tithing will bring financial security, I'm pretty sure giving another 10% to these other funds will bring financial freedom. In the name of Jesus Christ Amen.

ps. Just because you have paid your 10% tithing and contributed to BoM funds, missionary funds, temple funds etc, does not mean you can forget about your fast offering. Give generously to that too!

Ibowedmyheadandsaidyes said...

Oh how lovely is this morning! My humble prayer was answered!! I was fasting all day yesterday with the hope of a post about the law of tithing. This law has been one that I have NEVER struggled with. I have NEVER even been TEMPTED to give less than 100%. I even pay off my gross income and not the net like some of the less faithful members that I know.

I would like to bear down in powerful exlplosive testimony of the truthfulness of paying tithing, and add a side not...if you would please wirte a note with your tithing when you pay it each payweek with the following wording (or someting similar):

"I would prefer that this money I am returning to the Lord be used to further the work of his football team, even the BYU Cougars."

I know that the Cougars and tithing are true.

In the sacred and all-powerfully holy name, that of Even Christmas Eve,


Donna Banta said...

Since I'm just a wife and mother, I can't pay tithing because I don't earn any money. However, I can share the blessings of paying tithing with my husband! This makes me so excited that I want to spend my entire day cooking and cleaning just for him.

kolobian said...

I have a strong testimony of paying tithing first before meeting our other financial obligations.

After returning home from an honorable mission I began going to school and working at Wal-Mart. My paycheck was around $1,100/month.

I immediately gave $110 to my bishop, which left me with $990.

I was helping my mother pay her mortgage which was $1,500/month, so that left me with $240 for utilities, food, gas, maintenance, and dating money.

On the way to a stake singles dance I was t-boned by an illegal immigrant who fled the scene on foot (the car was stolen). Since I could only afford liability insurance I was left to pay the medical bills myself, which I was unable to pay so I got behind on payments.

Although I was paying my tithing faithfully my bishop refused to issue me a new temple recommend because of my delinquent medical bills. He said I was not being "honest in my dealings with my fellow man."

In order to catch up on the hospital bills I stopped helping my mother pay the mortgage, and she lost the house. We are currently living in my Honda Civic and spend most of our time at the public library where I'm able to read your inspired posts.

Truly the Lord causeth it to rain on the good and the evil. I bear my testimony that if one pays their tithing faithfully they will be blessed with health & strength & monetary success.

I'm confident that I'll receive that big promotion at Wal-Mart to Customer Service Supervisor which will allow me to afford health insurance for my mother. She's really sick right now. I don't think she's been paying her tithing.

Karin said...

This week's subject is one that is especially pertinent for all Canadians- it being Thanksgiving Day here in the great white north.

The best way to give thanks for our blessings is to share them and the best way to do that is thru tithing, so that everyone in the world can be blessed to be able to view a temple as they drive around their neighbourhood.

Thank you president for that timely reminder as we feast with family this day.

Anonymous said...

I would like to add another contribution category for wardrobe. I've been noticing that some of the ties the GAs have been wearing in conference look a bit drab and dull....maybe this would help them look and ultimately feel better when they give their awe-inspiring talks at conference.

Michael Taylor said...

Having not paid my tithing for several years I can testify that Satan has had an active role in allowing my family to take a vacation and even pay of the debt encoured from that vacation. Your message has conviced me that the joy I felt by being out of debt and spending time with my family was false-joy and surely not from the father.

HudsonSydney said...

I'm so ashamed, I've been sending donations each month to a 12-year African girl with aids who we sponsored. I can see that these moneys should be going to build God's kingdom on earth, and I've notified this unrighteous charity that we will not longer be sending them our moneys, which are consecrated to the lord.

Thomas Partridge said...

While I agree with much of what this post states, I really have to disagree with the idea that a faithful tithe paying member of the true church of God could possibly be destitute and in the situation described by President Paternoster, or others in these comments.

I know that when we are faithful to the words of the prophet that spiritual and even temporal blessings will be ours. If someone is "without means of subsistence; lacking food, clothing, and shelter", then they obviously are not being blessed, and must therefore not be living the commandments as they should be.

If you find yourself only able to work at Wal-Mart (or perhaps not having a job), you need to do some deep introspection and find what sin is keeping you from receiving rich blessing in store for you. Perhaps you are harboring hidden homosexual desires that are keeping you from being worthy. Maybe you are having secret problems with self-abuse that is keeping you from being clean. Perhaps you are being envious of others around you which is keeping your heart set on the things of this world.

President Paternoster, please let the saints know that for the truely righteous, paying tithes will never really be a challenge. The abundant blessings we are told will pour from the windows of heaven are guaranteed to us if we are worthy.

Anonymous said...

We were $40,000 in debt and stopped paying tithes because the amount of our debts equalled exactly what we had paid out in tithes over a 2-year period.

Since then, our finances have improved greatly and we even have some savings. But I feel sooo guilty for not paying tithes any longer. Surely our blessings come from satan now instead of the Lord.

I hope my dh will have a change of heart and pay tithes again since I'm a sahm and can't pay.

The bishop took away dh's temple recommend for not paying tithes and I'm a bit fearful of life without paying the protection money.

But I hope and pray the Lord at least sees the righteous desires of the heart, even if the bishop does not.

Edward Marsh said...


You claim that you were $40,000 in debt while paying tithing? I find that hard to believe if you were faithfully following the counsel of our beloved prophet. While listening to the inspired words of the brethern during General Conference I felt impressed that such financial difficulties would not happen to me as I followed the commandments of the living prophet.

Do you have some type of hidden vice or addiction that caused such a debt? Are you aware that the church has a 12 step program on overcomming addictions that will help you overcome such trials that can cause massive debt like what you have aquired.

I would like to bare my testimony that I know the Lord blesses us with great riches, both of knowledge and hidden treasures when we are faithful to Him, and it is only in wickedness that evils such as debt or poverty can be afflicted upon us.

Bro. Marsh

Christopher Bigelow said...

Bummer, you're losing your touch, bishop. It's only valiant and true when you keep it accurate.

Emma Snyde said...

I am so glad that the Lord has blessed us with the law of tithing! Every story of the financial success that all of you have experienced just warms my heart and strengthens my testimony. Those of you who are struggling, well..., Gods ways are not our ways. Just remember to pay, pray and obey. You will be blessed!

I also want to point out that tithing is the preparatory law. Its purpose is to prepare us to live the law of consecration where we will have all things in common and there will be no poor among us. This law will be divinely administered by Jesus Christ who will be our political leader and who will be revered as God. Any resemblance this bears to earthly communist regimes is purely coincidental.

Joseph Young Sr. said...

Thank you Emma for bringing up the topic of the true law of living, the law of consecration. I look forward to the day when all of our earthly needs along with our spiritual needs will be met by our bishops and church leaders.

I work long, hard days to provide for my wife and 11 children. We all make sacrifices, but are able to live the law of tithing to the fullest, and even make generous fast offerings, and other donations to inspired programs.

I worry sometimes that injury or illness could cause my family to become destitute (I know this is showing lack of faith on my part), since I can't afford health insurance, but surely a higher law, even the law of consecration, would remove all doubt and fear from my mind.

I eagerly await receiving a message from the first presidency during a special priesthood conference when we will be told to gather up in Independence Missouri and rebuild the true Zion where we will have all things in common. My heart shouts and rejoices in the thought of such a utopia where there will be no crime, hunger, injustice, or fear. I know that this is comming soon, as the end is drawing near. The prophecies of our inspired leaders are soon to come to pass, and will be fulfilled in each and every way.

Simon P. said...

I can't believe this group! I believe that I am a true believing Christian, but what you guys are advocating is pure INSANITY! Are you really serious that you would let your own family starve, or get kicked out of your homes just so that you could be obeying some church rule?

I always heard that mormons were a little crazy, but if you guys actually believe this stuff.... just wow! While I think it's a good idea to pay tithing (I mean it's in the Bible), God doesn't tell us to ignore our families needs and take care of loved ones before blindly following his rules. Show me anywhere in the Bible (and not in your mormon books) where it says that we should just leave our family, or leave them hungry!

Utahhiker801 said...

Um, Simon P., I think you've missed the point of the irony and sarcasm in the posts.

Oh, I meant to say, absolutely. With enough faith in God, one can overcome the laws of finance, and you might even find a misplaced fiver when doing the laundry to pay for those unmet needs in your life.

☼ Dayna said...

I have nothing to say other than "I love this blog."

Anonymous said...

I testify that paying tithing opens the windows of Heaven to bless you materially often by making you receptive to wonderful opportunities that present themselves.

One of my fellow ward members has invited me to participate in a sure fire money making opportunity all I have to do is get ten of my friends or family to join with me and the $1,000.00 I paid to join will come back to me many times over.

My wife was resistant, since we wouldn't have enough money to pay our bills, but I reminded her that I am the priesthood holder and feel inspired about this opportunity. She simply needs to be obedient and have faith.

We await our blessings.

Anonymous said...

My brother and sister, both severely handicapped and on disability benefits, paid tithing faithfully for years via my mother, their carer and a faithful member and pensioner. They were indeed blessed with fellowship, now and again, and now they are away from the LDS church, mother having passed away, they are enjoying life but I'm afraid their weight has increased - not a good thing at all. My brother has learned to enjoy the single pint of beer that he is allowed in his community home and my sister is posing around in her fancy wheelchair, instead of the modest one she had during church attendance.

Things are definitely going downhill now for them. They are having far too many days out and holidays. I'm not sure it is good for them in their delicate condition but it is out of my hands now. I grieve greatly for their spiritual wellbeing.

kolobian said...

Brother Simon P,

I'm afraid you're hearkening to the counsel of the adversary which is what is clouding your understanding of the holy words of the savior Jesus, even the christ.

Did he not teach us to "take no thought for the morrow?" "consider the lillies of the field, how they grow. they toil not, neither do they spin, and yet solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these."

Our dear Heavenly Father feeds the birds of the air, the fish of the sea, and the animals of the land. I testify that not one hair will fall from your head but that the father knows it.

You're not giving 10% of your income to the lord. The lord is giving you 90%! Surely you must understand this simple truth.

Listen to the words of our beloved Prophet Brigham Young: "I have no wife whom I love so well that I would not put a javelin through her heart, and I would do it with clean hands."

We should follow the counsel of Brigham Young and put our priorities in order. You may feed your family first and short god on tithing, but then the windows of heaven will be closed to you. If, however, you pay your tithing first, your family will never go hungry.

Unless of course you masturbate and look at pornography. Tithing is not an indulgence, after all. In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Joseph K. Packer said...

My Brother in Christ Simon P. I cringe when reading your note knowing that you are not following the council of our beloved prophet even Gordon B. Hinkley when he says:" I know that you have financial difficulties...but good is the lord who will bless us if we keep this commandment" I did face the dilemma of feeding my family or paying tithing. And I prise the Lord and his living prophet for paying tithing. One of my children died of starvation but he is with the Lord now. And You Utahhiker802 you also need to repent. I say these things in the sacred name of Joseph Smith and Ellen Mar Kimball Amen.

Simon P. said...

I'm having a hard time telling if you guys are serious, or just total nut jobs. The few mormon's that I know are a little wierd, but nothing like Mr. Paternoster or you other crazies here.

I am a practicing Baptist that believes that faith in the Lord Jesus saves us, and not paying my way into heaven. When I read about your children suffering and how it seems like you don't even care, it's like you are all in some crazy cult and brainwashed.

I came here to better understand what you mormons believe, seeing how we could have a mormon president soon, but I can tell that if that happens, we really will have an apocolyse! May Jesus save your souls.

kolobian said...

Simon P,

As a practicing baptist (oxymoron?) you only have access to a little of the truth and therefore are not able to cognize the blessings that come from obedience to the eternal law of sacrifice.

Yes, faith in Jesus saves. But is that all you want out of eternity?! To be saved?! Don't you want to progress? Get better?

I bear my solemn testimony that you'll never be god's equal if you're too selfish to sacrifice your life, let alone 10% of your income.

In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Bishop Wigglesworth said...

I think we all need to remember that tithing can ease our worries, as stated so well in the Ensign article linked below entitled 'Could Tithing Ease My Worries?'

"I would rather lose the water source to my house than lose the living water offered by the Savior. I would rather have no food on our table than be without the Bread of Life. I would prefer to endure the darkness and discomfort of no electricity than to forfeit the Light of Christ in my life. I would rather abide with my children in a tent than relinquish my privilege of entering the house of the Lord."

I regularly share this message with the members of my ward. Sadly, social services do not share our inspired leaders' ideals, and they did step in to remove brother and sister Robertson's children when they were found to be malnourished, which was unfortunate, but the Lord always comes first. We must remember that.

Bishop Wigglesworth said...

Oh dear. Someone must have been looking at polygamy on my computer. I linked to the wrong place.

Of course, I meant to link to the Ensign, not an anti-mormon message board (that I was only looking at for research purposes, it goes without saying).

Brigham Taft Pratt said...

Simon P,
Going to church for 1 hour a week and sipping coffee while you listen to rock music does not constitute practising real Christianity. I spend around 20 hours per week practising Mormonism, of which at least 15 minutes are devoted to studying the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Over the course of a year, that adds up to around a dozen hours thinking about Jesus. Now that is true Christianity! How you can come here and claim Mormonism to be a cult is beyond me. It is not only a Christian church, but it is the only true Christian church on the earth today. God himself said that all other Christian churches are an abomination. When you are brought to the judgment bar and see all of the happy Mormons being welcomed into the highest degree of glory, you will hang your head in shame knowing that you once called the LDS church a cult. Repent and come unto the church, before it is too late. This is my sincere prayer for you, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

ps. If, heaven forbid, you do leave this life without having embraced Mormonism you will not be prepared to meet God. Here's a little tip, if you ever hear someone in the next life ask you "what is wanted?" Please do not say "coffee." This would only hasten your descent into the infernal pit.

Cindy said...

This is such an important topic and I'm glad you chose to do a post on it. We need to remember that everything we have belongs to the Lord. All he asks is that we give 10% back to him. Paying tithing is easier when we realize that that money does not belong to us. I understand that this is hard for some people but it is through sacrifices that we will become closer to our Saviour. Take taxes for example. If they were to be increased by 10% you would have to find ways to deal with that, and you would. Maybe you'd need to downsize or get an extra job or go to clothing exchanges and food banks. The same effort to find ways to cope with our financial situations should go apply for tithing. It is when we start seeing it as an option that we start running into problems. If we can accept that that money does to belong to us we are more likely to make the adjustments that are necessary. As we do that we will become more financially secure as we develop skills to live with in our means.

James said...

I look forward to the day our beloved Prophet says, "It's time to end the tithe, and to live consecration." At that time, I will deed all my property and everything else I own over to the Corporation of the Presiding Bishop.

As I feast at this wonderful table of the Lord's Church, I will remember all those who were willing to deprive God of His money in order to feed and clothe their children. I'll probably see them starving in the streets, powerless to do anything about it, just because they didn't pay their tithe. I will feel so sad watching them beg as I push another handcart full of United Order Produce to the Bishop's Storehouse. But, I'll know it's God's justice for their disobedience.

Please, brothers and sisters, pay your tithes! I don't want to be feasting while you're starving. That would be so sad.

Edward Marsh said...

I would like to bare my testimony to Simon P. and give him an example out of the Bible that will show him that he is in dire need of repentance.

In Acts 5:1-11 we read of the story of Ananias and Sapphira. They gave part of an offering to the Lord, but they held back selfishly a part for themselves. They were supposed to give ALL of it to the Lord, but they wouldn't. Do you know what happened to them? They both were SLAIN by God because of their selfishness!

Refrain from your own selfish desires and give back to the Lord what is already his, lest you face his wrath!

Molly Smith said...

What an inspired post, President Paternoster!!!

I think it's rather key that you mention that we should not be tempted to allow the mother to work outside the home when undergoing these hardships. I have known several bishops to pay rent, utilities, and food for families in which the mother refused to work while the father was out of a job.

I'm ashamed to say, but after my own husband graduated from The Lord's university, we were unable to find work for some time. Unable to pay the rent, I took a job waitressing, leaving my baby son at home with his spiritually struggling father, who struggled many days to even get out of bed.

Even then, with tithing as our first priority, our bishop wisely refused to help us, as we owed back tithing. Luckily, my husband found a job elsewhere after that, and, as my sweet mother in law helpfully pointed out, probably would have found work sooner if I hadn't denied him his rightful role as breadwinner, thus rendering him impotent in his own home.

I still work hard to make up for such a sin against the man I love so much.

~Clint~ said...


"And every one who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life." (Matt. 19:29)

It is clear that Jesus did tell us we should leave our family, in at least some cases. These are not the only words of Jesus which suggest that he approved of such things, the whole "take no thought for the morrow" philosophy, also fits this description as well as other scriptures.

Back to the primary topic of tithing:
In LDS church meetings, and at general conference, tithing is often emphasized. It is sometimes referred to as fire insurance as a reference to Doctrine and Covenants 64:23 – revealed on 8 July 1838.

Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.

Tithing related discussion along this line essentially amounts to, God doesn’t need your money, but if you don’t give it to the Church, then when Christ returns you will be destroyed by being burned to death. Now 10% doesn't really seem like that much to be one of the few who Christ isn't going to burn to a crisp, does it?

Also, it isn't talked about much in the LDS church, but tithing has undergone a few scriptural revisions and then some policy revisions on top of that, one of my favorites of these being that there is now no disclosure of how funds are used (in the US at least, as it is not required here by law.)

I think that what some of the kind responses here to your religion being different from Mormonism (which makes the claim to be the one true church) are related to the level of blind obedience and monetary commitment that Mormons are expected to have. I don't think this is required in most Christian religions, although it in reality that might be something you could tell me better than I could hypothesize.

You have probably noticed that some of the comments here seem ridiculously dogmatic (and yes, I am emphasizing the word ridiculous) but in the end, whether they are 100% literal or not, they are indicative of the beliefs and requirements put forth by the "inspired" leadership of the LDS Church.

desert dispatches said...

I am in a bit of a predicament, as I married a non-member and I am now a SAHM, I do not earn an income and my husband does not pay tithes to a church he does not belong to. Should I, in this case, go to work outside the (un-covenanted) home so that I may at least pay some tithing to save myself from burning at the final judgement? So confused.....

Boyd Tom Ballard said...

I love the law of tithing! I love how blessed I am to be free to give away my hard earned dollars to the Lord's church, so He can see fit to spend that money on furthering the Kingdom here on earth.

I care not for how He chooses to spend my hard earned money, so long as some point in the future I might receive some reward back from Him, whether it be in this life or the next.

I'll gladly sacrifice a good credit history and eating out etc for "heavenly dollars" to be used when God sees fit to bestow them on me.

I care not for bill collectors, coz I take comfort in knowing someone, somewhere, is enjoying a good shopping experience in SLC. And who knows? Maybe they are non-Mormon and will be converted to the Lord's true church from seeing how good His malls are, malls paid for with my money.

Thank you Lord for demanding this principle be a requirement for Temple marriage. My wife is not an 8 cow woman, I paid for her from 20 years of righteousness via tithe paying! (Sadly, I did not start working until after I got married - so I think that makes her around a $1500 woman - but she is worth so much more!)

I testify that paying 10% of your income to the Church will open the windows of heaven (expect in times of drought when it's actually needed). Amen

Chris S said...

Remember that tithing is not about the money (it is vulgar to suggest that God needs our money), it's about obedience. God tested Abraham's obedience by asking him to sacrifice Isaac and Abraham obeyed without complaint. In much the same way, those of us who refuse to obey the eternal principle of financial self-reliance should not complain when they are asked to let their children go without health insurance to prove their obedience to the Lord.

Side note: I make quite a lot of money at my job (a commercial real estate firm that I co-founded with my father when I was a baby) and I can attest that it is much harder for me to write a tithing check for $2,500 each month than it is for someone who pays a meager $100. 25 times harder, to be precise.

Melvin J. Trump said...

I completely concur with Chris S. I too started working as a baby to earn the BIG $$$. While it is 50 times harder for me to pay my $5000 tithing each month, compared to the general pleb riff raffs, I take comfort in knowing that the 56% I'm keeping ($28,000 after tax) each month, can be spent freely on ME!

I have no problem saying no to the poor and other "charity beggars" coz I'm paying it to the Lord (sometimes I even slip in an extra $50 into my tithing envelope for extra blessings)! I tell them to go to Him for help via prayer and fasting. Besides, nourishing the soul is far more important than nourishing the body!

Well done Chris S. for enlightening the poor how hard it is for us to pay (and keep) 25 or 50 times more!

Peter Pecker said...

Dear President,

I work as a fluffer (in the porn industry). Is it sinful for me to pay tithing on these frowned upon earnings?


fproy2222 said...

(Brothers and Sisters the faithful payment of tithes enables the worldwide Church, which has more members outside of the US than within, to invest the money and from the profits they can accomplish much good in the world such as the current project of spending billions of dollars building ****malls and condominiums in Utah)

Again "Stake Pres" your lack of knowledge about the inner workings of LDS Church call into question about you REALLY BEING WHO YOU SAY YOU ARE. Even though taxed commercial profits are used for Church projects, the non taxed donations are not used for the taxed commercial projects run by the Church.


Stake Pres. said...

Thank you Fred for the clarification. So just to be clear; you are saying that tithing donations have never gone directly or indirectly into Church owned businesses, which have then produced profits, which are now being used to fund this awe inspiring (and in my opinion faith promoting) mall. Have I understood correctly?

Jetskininja said...


Couldn't this be like the time when the apostles wanted to sell the ointments and give the money to the poor, but Jesus was like "Hold up! You will always have poor people, how about a little love for me, thy sweet Lord, while I'm still around?" Only this time it's building a shopping mall in Utah instead of anointing Jesus before the crucifiction? Just my opinion. I should mention that I do not feel the spirit right now, so my words shouldn't be considered scripture.

Anonymous said...

The church was broke under Lorenzo Snow and he was inspired to require tithing from all members, in order to open the "windows of heaven".

So at one time ALL that the church now owns came from the tithes and faith of the members.

Those members are and will be blessed, either in this life of the next.

Most likely in the next, for in this life the laws of math are set and no angel will appear with a check to bail out those hose faith is being tested through poverty.
Endure it well.

fproy2222 said...

(Have I understood correctly?)

Your question is a good diversion from your lack of knowledge of Church financed.

You were telling a sister from a poor country that her money is going to build condos in SLC. This is very good evidence that you are a fake.

Since your name cannot be found on any leadership rolls, and since you teach false information, all evidence says you are a fake.


Stake Pres. said...

Thank you Fred. Your insight, knowledge and wisdom are most welcome here. So you are confirming that tithes collected from people in poor countries have never ended up being invested (into stocks or church owned businesses etc) and from the profit none of that money has helped in the building of the mall. Is that correct?

fproy2222 said...

Stake Pres.(So you are confirming)

You do well at diverting the real question, and you fool many into believing you are a real stake president.

The real question, the on going question, is why you will not show your Church ID, or stake location, so we can know you are not just lieing about being a SP and that you are not working to lead people away from the truth.


Stake Pres. said...

Fred now that we have the tithing question out of the way let's deal with your main objective which is to determine if I am a real stake president or not. This question has come up many times on this blog. There are those who accept my calling and others who think I am pretending. I am fine with either point of view and with people expressing their viewpoints openly on the blog. I do not censor such comments and I have never provided any evidence one way or the other. I prefer that readers discuss the content of my blog posts rather than concentrate on the poster but inevitably there will always be those such as yourself who are curious enough to enquire as to my location etc. Your views are most welcome here and I want to thank you for your participation on this blog. Please continue to provide us with your insights and points of view.

Dr. Nick said...

Fred, I think the spirit of contention is troubling the deep recesses of your soul. Have you asked Heavenly Father if He has called President Paternoster? I notice that you have also neglected to show your Church ID. I have prayed over President Paternoster and I know him to be a man of God. I say to you Fred, that you are a WICKED and ADULTEROUS person asking for a sign of President Paternoster, God's chosen servant! I will pray that you come to know the truth as I do, Jesus Christ is the son of our Heavenly Father, Joseph Smith is a true prophet as is Thomas S. Monson, for whom we are all thankful and that President Paternoster is also a servant of the living Christ. President Paternoster graciously allows you to continue posting here and he is a greater man than I for I would respond to you saying "get behind me Satan"! after banning you.

Thank you President Paternoster for your inspired and inspiring writings. Even now you using posters such as Fred to further the Gospel message. Truly Heavenly Father has blessed us through you.

Chris S said...

What's a church ID? Is this slang for 'temple recommend?'

fproy2222 said...

Stake Pres.--( There are those who accept my calling and others who think I am pretending.)



Stake Pres. said...

Fred please calm down. Thine anger is not of the Lord.

fproy2222 said...

all you have to do is that that is correct for any Stake President, but all we get is another side-step answer.

Your refusal indecates you are a fake.


Chris S said...

I posted this on another thread, but will repeat it here:

I happen to believe that President Paternoster is who he claims to be (although he uses a psuedonym on this blog to protect the identity of his flock). But even if he weren't a Stake President, aren't his teachings supported by modern revelation and therefore true? Some readers of this blog remind me of anti-Mormons who try to find fault with Joseph Smith because they don't want to accept his message.

The wicked take the truth to be hard. If President's posts (with citations to official sources) offend us, then maybe we should see what changes need to be made in our own lives before attempting to discredit a man of faith. I'm not accusing anyone here of anything, but pornography/masturbation and homoerotic yearnings are two of the main ways that Satan turns us against those who preach the pure doctrine of Christ.

Molly Smith said...

Brother Fred,

Please cease in disrupting the Spirit of God on this blog! President Paternoster uses quotes, links directly to sources from church doctrine, and has said nothing--NOTHING--that is not in keeping with the actions and behavior of the many devout Latter-Day Saints I have known in my life!

If you do not desist with this spirit of contention, then I am very suspicious that you are a troll from one of those terrible Anti-Mormon websites! How dare you spread your venom here...this must be because we have such an excellent chance at a Mormon in the White House: it seems as though this election year all the worst behavior seems to come from those who have been offended by the truth of the gospel.

Were you spewing such biased and uninformed anti-religious statements in my actual presence, I'd be tempted to quote the words of the Prophet Joseph Smith and say, "SILENCE, ye fiends of the infernal pit. In the name of Jesus Christ I rebuke you, and command you to be still; I will not live another minute and bear such language. Cease such talk, or you or I die THIS INSTANT!” (Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt, page 180.)

As I do not have the gift of the priesthood, though, I would forbear raising my arm to the square, as is suggested in D&C 129.

SLC_girl said...

The law of tithing and other sacrifice has truly blessed me with a wonderful city to live in (SLC). What a beautiful downtown it is! The new condos are beautiful and the mall is full of promise of great shopping experience. I can't wait to go sit by fountains and flower beds in the middle of a desert! Please, whoever paid to the church, keep paying. I need more parks and stores to go to on weekends.

Anonymous said...

This is some bullshit if ever I heard any. Stop wasting your money paying a cult to treat you like crap. You can have a good life outside the church. I was a member for 20 years and I am happier than I have ever been now that I left. It's a hard road to leave, they make you feel horrible for it, but once you're on the other side life is so great. Live for today. Be true to YOURSELF

Brigham McConkie, III said...

I know that I was blessed with the opportunity to be destitute. When faced with the challenge of feeding the family or remitting the Lord's tenth (not mine, THE LORD's) or feeding the children, we went to the Bishop, who happened to be Tommy Monson, and we paid our tithing without hesitation. We had no money left, but we were told we would be blessed. When we returned, mother took off her weathered parka and to our astonishment there was a bag of groceries brought by our dear Relief Society president. It had a receipt in it that reflected the EXACT AMOUNT of what we paid in tithing. THE EXACT AMOUNT. There was a little note that said, "Can Tommy Monson use your story in a future conference talk?" We love you. We love you (humbly whispered with a dramatic pause). This is my storymony of tithing.

In the name of the First Presidency and board of directors, amen.

Hill said...

We’ve been stumbling around the internet and found your blog along the way.

We love your work! What a great corner of the internet :)


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