Thursday, May 17, 2012

Should a Man Marry a Man?

I recently came across a discussion on someone’s Facebook wall with regards to the question of whether homosexuals should have the right to marry one another.  The laws of many lands have been altered such that sodomy is no longer even considered a crime and those with same gender weaknesses can openly live with each other.  I am now told that they want to have the right to take their relationships one step further by marrying each other.  I can only assume that if this were to be granted it wouldn't be long until they were lobbying for the right to be sealed for time and all eternity in the temples of our Lord.  This needs to be stopped. 

In the discussion that took place a bishop of the Church presented as evidence (against homosexual marriage) the essential point that Adam and Eve, our first parents, were married by God. 

This led to much reflection in my mind and I believe this good bishop has hit the nail on the head.  If Adam and Eve were in fact the first humans, were real people and were married by their (and our) creator, even God the Eternal Father, then we humans have absolutely no right to make alterations to the definition of marriage.  To do so would be to put ourselves above our creator and would cause his judgments and wrath to come upon us.

If on the other hand Adam and Eve were not real people and the story of them is simply made up, and if marriage is in fact simply a man made institution then man does have the right to change the rules. 

So what do we know about Adam and Eve and what are the arguments used by those who do not accept them as real people? Allow me to briefly summarize.

As far as I can tell most Christian groups agree that the Fall of Adam took place about 6,000 years ago.  The Old Testament timeline that we give to our seminary students (and that I will happily attach to this post, if requested) and statements made by Church leaders show that we in the LDS Church also accept this.  We know from the scriptures that no death occurred for any forms of life before Adam’s fall (see “Death” in the bible dictionary), indeed it was his fall that caused death to occur upon the earth.

The so-called learned people of the world scoff at this assumption and claim that humans have been living (and dying) on the earth since well before 4,000 B.C.  The Sumerians for example supposedly had civilizations in operation some 1,300 years before the first human was even created! 

The problem with accepting these conclusions is they can lead us further back in time such that one may even erroneously conclude that man is merely a product of evolution.

All of these theories of men are of course complete and utter nonsense.  The problem with the world is that they look at the evidence and then draw conclusions.  As more evidence comes to light their conclusions change and thus they find themselves being in the unfortunate predicament of ever learning but never coming to a knowledge of the truth. 

As members of the Lord’s church we have the distinct advantage of already having the answers/conclusions through direct revelation.  This allows us to interpret any evidence in such a way that it always supports that which has already been revealed.

Here are some quotes that have been revealed to the world from actual prophets of God and can be found at

In the March 2008 Ensign, Apostle Boyd K Packer who may very well become the next President of the Church wrote the following:
“We are taught in Genesis, in Moses, in Abraham, in the Book of Mormon, and in the endowment that man’s mortal body was made in the image of God in a separate creation. Had the Creation come in a different way, there could have been no fall.”

I should add here that if there was no fall then there was no need for man to be redeemed from the fall by a saviour.  This could of course lead one to conclude that Christianity is a completely false man made religion. This line of thought is utterly preposterous.

Below are some quotes from the current Old Testament institute manual with regards to the evils concerning the theory of evolution:

“Of course, I think those people who hold to the view that man has come up through all these ages from the scum of the sea through billions of years do not believe in Adam. Honestly I do not know how they can, and I am going to show you that they do not. There are some who attempt to do it but they are inconsistent—absolutely inconsistent, because that doctrine is so incompatible, so utterly out of harmony, with the revelations of the Lord that a man just cannot believe in both.”

“. . . I say most emphatically, you cannot believe in this theory of the origin of man, and at the same time accept the plan of salvation as set forth by the Lord our God. You must choose the one and reject the other, for they are in direct conflict and there is a gulf separating them which is so great that it cannot be bridged, no matter how much one may try to do so. . . .”

Brothers and Sisters I testify to you that Adam and Eve were real people and that they were the first human beings upon the earth.  I know this because the scriptures and modern day leaders within The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have told me so.  The scriptures tell us that Adam and Eve were created and placed in the Garden of Eden, a real place that existed in the United States of America.  I know without a shadow of doubt that God married them and that marriage is ordained of God to be between one man and one woman only.  The Church has and always will support this view. 

Let us not defile the sacred institution of marriage by allowing perverted forms thereof. 

We have been warned in a proclamation to the family given to the whole world by our leaders “that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.”  We are seeing the fulfillment of this prophecy right before our eyes. 

To the faithful readers of this blog I beg you to please vote for political leaders who support the equal rights of all of God’s children to be born and raised in a home with both a mother and father.  In this way all families will be able to emulate the exemplary first family that was set up by God Himself, even that of Adam and Eve and their children which included Cain, Abel, Seth and many others.  I leave these thoughts with you in the sacred name of Jesus Christ, amen. 


James Mitchell said...

What our inspired President may not know is the persecution homosexuals have perpetrated against our true and living Church.

When we stood for the right, raising tens of millions of dollars for anti-gay television and radio advertizements in California, and recruited volunteers to work in call centers to fight gay rights in California, God blessed us, and we crushed the perverted hopes of many hundreds of thousands of gay people.

But then Satan raised his ugly head and the gay-rights people started persecuting us by waging peaceful protests outside our temples, with signs made of poster-board. Sometimes at least 50 people would show up! It was a horrible persecution. I honestly felt just like my pioneer ancestors.

It just goes to show you that no matter how much good God's church does in the world, we will always be persecuted by Satan and his followers.

Anonymous said...

science educated apostles correct the First Presidency:

Chapter 6.
The B. H. Roberts/Joseph Fielding Smith/James E. Talmage Affair
Richard Sherlock and Jeffrey E. Keller

Anonymous said...

I am usually educated and inspired by Pres Paternoster...but he is OUT OF LINE on this post...out of harmony with the teachings of the brethren. BYU teaches evolution. The church has no official policy against evolution. In fact, the science apostles proved that pre-Adamites existed!!
Ergo...Adam was not the first man.
All major universities teach that human civilizations have existed for at least 25,000 years. The Corporation is in tune with these facts. Pity some of the membership isn't. Oops!!! silly me....this is meat...and members should receive milk before meat...i shall continue lying for the Lord and saying that Adam and Eve were our first parents - parents of the human family...

Stake Pres. said...

It doesn't matter what BYU teaches. BYU doesn't speak for the church. I have provided a link to the current Old Testament manual that speaks of evolution AND I have referenced a talk by Pres. Packer that can be found online that states we were made in a separate creation. Do you think those of us who live far from Provo check first what BYU teaches? No we go straight to for our information.

Mahonri Kimball said...

Pres. Paternoster is right on the money again. So many people rely on the understanding of men on these simple issues. I can not understand why people will refuse to believe modern revelation when the ideas of men contradict it. Men will claim that we have dinosaur fossils from millions of years ago, when we know that death came into the world 6000 years ago. They will claim that Adam was NOT the first human, and he lived 6000 years ago, merely because we have irrefutable evidence of humans dating back tens of thousands of years. They will claim that Noah's Flood was not real by citing the fact that several civilizations existing during that time period, apparently just kept on going about their business even though they would have been underwater. They think that merely having different written languages predating the Tower of Babel by a thousand years makes the story a myth. The Book of Mormon tells us that these things are all literal. How on earth could the Jaredites come over at the time of the Tower of Babel if it never really happened? That would be ridiculous! Use your head! It must have been real. Otherwise, the Book of Mormon would not be true!

It is a wayward person that will believe science over the Book of Mormon, the D&C, and our modern profits. Some people have told me that just because you cannot find a qualified Mormon scientist alive today who will defend these stories as literal, it is an indication that they might not be true.

Just because the Lord has not spoken about homosexuality in the scriptures since the days of the Bible, it is no indication that he has changed his mind on this matter. I know that "it is an abomination" because it says so in the Bible. There is no more reason to believe that this declaration invalid any more than the Old Testament edict "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"

God does not lie.

Anonymous said...


This is NOT a website sanctioned by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Nor is "President Paternoster" a stake president within the Church. Rather, this site is farce, and [usually] not good farce, at that.

Most of the posts here are written by quasi-apostates who mock those who are sincerely striving, albeit imperfectly, to follow Jesus.

Caveat utilitor.

Anonymous said...

It's so sad President P. how someone like Anonymous Gideon will come along here trying to ruin the Spirit and bring in a spirit of contention which the scriptures teach is of the devil. What Anonymous Gideon ought to do is humble his heart and learn from a brave man like President P. who sets such a good example for the world on how church members and leaders should never be afraid to discuss the doctrines of salvation which the Lord wants shared with the world. Kudos to you President P. and all you labor with and please keep up the good effort.

Anonymous said...

I feel I have to slightly correct Mahonri Kimball on what he said -

quote" Just because the Lord has not spoken about homosexuality in the scriptures since the days of the Bible, it is no indication that he has changed his mind on this matter. I know that "it is an abomination" because it says so in the Bible."

However since we know as members the Bible has been corrupted according to 1 Ne 13 it is entirely possible that the Lord hasn't spoken out against this at all and has no actual official position on Homosexuality just like the church has no real official position on Evolution.

Perhaps he will simply change his mind and reveal to the Prophet when it's the proper time Official Declaration number 3 on the matter.

Anonymous said...

True dat, President P. We should follow Adam and Eve exactly. That's why all men should be farmers. God TOLD Adam that he would eat by the sweat of his brow. Mao understood - all those white collar workers and teachers should give up their silly pursuits and get back to tilling the soil. Because clearly whatever happened when only two (straight) people were alive should be applied as rules to all people in all ages.

Anonymous said...

Well I am genuinely confused. One person posts this is NOT a website sanctioned by the LDS church. That doesn't make sense. President Paternoster obviously knows all about the church. And he cites only church references. And I feel the truth here with every fiber of my being.

Anonymous said...

It's quite simple. Anonymous Gideon has lost his way. I can only hope and pray that his feet will find their way back onto the straight and narrow path that the good President Paternoster has pointed out for us all.

Anonymous said...

You poor pathetic little people.

Jag said...

"Little people" is considered politically incorrect. The politically correct form of what you said was, "You poor midgets."